Why MTV Amerca’s Best Dance Crew ignores house dancing?
First of all, as many dancers agree, I don’t like the show MTV’s “America’s best dance crew”. I don’t like it for the fact Most of the dancers in this show are not impressive with a few exception of dancers from knuckeheadzoo (super crew) and soul sector (supreme soul) yet with staged over hyped studio audience reaction and judge clueless comments made them look like super star. Jabbawockees, for instance, their routine are nothing new and the individuals are a kind of weak. (Imagine, if any member from jabbawockees enter the 1 on 1 battle… could they win? ) Although, I don’t like the show, I have to admit and appreciate the fact that the show could promote this dance culture to the mass audience. But I worry that kids who are only exposed to this MTV’s show would have misunderstanding about lot of things in culture.There is a similar dance show in Japan which is not big scale as much as this mtv’s show. I like their show for the fact that they actually talk about the cultre. They often invite the OG dancers who have been in the game for a long time and has made contribution to the culture and have them talk about it. MTV doesn’t do that.
By the way, do you know why some of the crew enters this show with different name? After the success of Jabba, they see lot of potential to make some profit. So, now they want to hold the right to use the crew name in case they become famous. After all, it is MTV, though…
Anyway, I am just wondering why MTV’s been ignoring house dancing as a style. Only the reference to house was (though I don’t watch the show all the time, so I might be missing) In the beginning of the season 2, there was a crew from chicago supposedly they said they were doing house, which was not House at all. I guess house is still least known style though last 5 years, finally people started to recognize it especially on net. I remember in early 90s, nobody in West Coast, and nobody in Europe except France does House. The house dance scene only existed in NY, Japan and France back then.
The clip here are linked from Tatsuo’s website. (They don’t start dancing until 1 min so just be patient…) Tatsuo is from Grasshopper in Japan and recently he won the 1 on 1 house dance battle at street dance kemp in Chez republic. The dancers in this video are Pino, Hirossy from Alma, Tatsuo, and Hiro. I like all the dancers here but especially I love Hirrossy (the guy with red thing on his head). His move is so smooth and sexy. plus if you notice that he does lot of little extra things during the routine, which shows his character.
August 4th, 2008 at 12:30 am
I agree.. that mtv show is sooooo annoying!
August 4th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
It is not fair to compare Jabbawokies to other established dancers like Elite Force or Electric boogaloos..
It is like comparing boy’s band group to U2. Jabbawokes are for teenagers who don’t know about dancing well and that is what MTV wants. Don’t even blame MTV.
August 4th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
I really dont like anything MTV has done… but like what Jabba said its basically for teenagers
August 5th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
So THAT is what House dancing looks like, interesting! Looks cool! Hey, how would you categorize David Elsewhere’s dancing? he’s the one in the Motorola “Motorokr” videos dancing all “liquid like” in the street.
August 5th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
David Elsewhere’s dancing is animation style. but his extreme physical flexibleness is making his style unique. But his style does not have the sense of music that much. If he start to dance in a real meaning with his skill, he would be much more respected. Sarah from France would be a good example.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:28 am
Hmmm… somethings I agree with like…THE WACK JUDGES that have no clue and making idiotic remarks. First off, they should, like at real hiphop/house/bboy.. comps have THE JUDGES showcase. Who the fuck is JC to say something wasn’t difficult?? It sucks not knowing there capabilities, and yet they get to say whatever bout dancing…
One thing I disagree with, is you stating the Jabbawokees individualy can’t defend themselves in a battle. Gary Kendall (RIP) would bring it to alot of heads if he was still around. Rainen been in the bboy circuit for years. WishOne been dancing for years too, but mostly does routines now.
And with the exception of SOUL SECTOR?? Mikey and Jardy enter house comps all the time, do they ever win?? Those two aren’t that dope. I think them jabba dudes would run them guys.
And I am from the SF bay area (CALI), and yes there were HOUSE DANCERS there in the early 90’s. I guess you wouldn’t really know UNLESS you were there. And the dancers there had an identity, unlike Japan in the early 90’s, which had nothing but CLONES from the NYC greats and today still do. Where are you getting your information?? There were HOUSE HEADS in NORTHERN CALI…can’t really speak for SOCAL.
As far as MOST of todays generation of dancers are LOST. NO knowledge of self. They are too busy trying to look like someone else…AND alot of them love the DANCE BEFORE THE MUSIC…when it should be the other way around.
August 7th, 2008 at 12:35 am
OH YEA, I think house will stay underground for a few more years. and will some how cross over to the mainstream.
Right now there just isn’t enough hype/street buzz for the corperates to capitalize off of.
August 8th, 2008 at 7:36 am
Meanmug,
I agree that many Japanese dancers tended to be copy cats in early 90s.
About house scene in Cali in early 90s, are you sure about that?
I mean in early 90s, people used to call hip hop dancing “housing” in Cali.
I remember Soul Brothers’ dancing was called “housing”. So, I wonder if people get confused with “housing”(hip hop or new jack swing or freestyling and “house dance” that you dance with house music.
If there were house dance scene existed in Cali early 90s, that’s a new discovery for me cuz every dancers I have spoken to like Stretch, Terry, Link, Caleaf, they said there were no house scene in Cali. I wonder if you have any video clip you can post it?
August 10th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
There was a house scene in cali my uncle is brother from the Skeam Team and I know for a fact that they had at least one house dancer on the team named Danny. But the majority in the early 90’s were the trendy dances like the guess the pope running man rebock etc… that period of time was called the trendy days
August 10th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
And that was in socal in the valley
August 10th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Dancemas - Yes indeed there was a house scene with some dancers. Although you are correct bout heads calling dancing “Housing”. While most were considered under that umbrella name, You had Pat and his partner Oscar who were doin it. These cats from WOR (Warriors Of Rhythm) were visiting NYC alot and adapted the style to theirs and brought the NYC vibe and music back with them. I’m not saying the house scene was booming, cause most heads were not hip to it yet, but “HOUSE Dance” & Music did exist in the BAY! I remember seeing a few peops back then too from the east bay that were house influenced…soon enough the entire story of the bay scene will be told. Alot of the dancers stopped dancing completly or got into just routines, went away and alot of the dancers were also gangbangers and went back to that route… MAXIMUM respects to the old school dance crews from the bay. Soulfathers, WOR, Housing Authority, Jughead Tribe, Bizerx, Jedi Clan, Ministry of Movement, Gamemasterz, Knucklenecks, Hedrush…etc…North, South, East bays, stand up! and the valley too, cant forget bout yall!
PS. i speak only from my experiences in the Bay Area. LA is like a whole other state. than the bay. CALI IS A HELLA BIG ASS STATE!! lol. although i remember crews called “BOOGIE IN IT” from long beach, “THINGAMAJIG TRIBE” (spelling”) & “DAISY AGE” that came to some of our parties…
August 10th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Yea LA house is different it is more of the hoofer style
August 24th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
The only reason MTV hasn’t recongizd house dance is because no legitimate house dance “crew” has auditioned for the show. There are very few groups in US who perform house dance - MAWU, Afro Mosaic Soul, Dance Warrior Project, House Dance Project, Love Space Music - and most would not want to be involved with the show anyway because they don’t view house dance as a competition format. I do think that Tatsuo / Hiro’s crew would do really well on MTV if they qualified, though. The Japanese house dancers are much more into the group dynamic.
As far as history of house dance, heads need to recognize that house dance (specifically, jacking and footwork elements), originated in Chicago from 83-90. Lofting developed in NYC and the convergence of the Chicago upright styles and NYC floorwork styles took place in the early 90s in NYC.
It is shame that the history of House Dance has not been documented as well as b-boyin’ / poppin, etc. - but it will one day . . .
August 26th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
House Footwork was influenced by TAP and LATIN styles of dance. NOT CHICAGO! Footwork in Chicago I believe they call it JUKING.
WHAT EXACTLY IS JACKING???
“HOUSE DANCE” as we know it today started in NYC. They never called it “HOUSE DANCE” in Chi-town. Before the umbrella “HOUSE DANCE”, it was just called Club Dancing or simply Dancing. LOFTING of course came from the LOFT. Not until the HIP HOP kids arrived at the club did the name HOUSE DANCE come about.
Well the reason why no solid documentaries are around is because of the whole mix up with the history. How could you make a solid film with no solid history. So many people say soo many things, what do you believe? As far as BBOYIN’, there is no dispute. You have solidified facts. Most of the first generation bboys have a common story. Where in House, you have people making shit up like you gotta jack. I don’t remember anyone in NYC referring to shit as Jacking except in songs. In a documentary featuring alot of the old school CHI-TOWN djs, they stated that jacking, was just like grinding on a person. So this JACKING that Santiago is referring too, is it the same as what the Djs were talking about?
Really, I don’t know what JACKING is?? I know in Newark, NJ they used to jack alot.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:42 am
To say that House Dance started in NYC is pure misinformation (Lofting is the one exception and that was really an outgrowth of disco). Too bad YouTube wasn’t around back in the 80s - there could be no dispute about it now. Jacking was the original style of house dance that developed to original house music, which was generated on the south side of Chicago at places like the Music Box and warehouse. The style further developed in the underage clubs on the north side, particularly Medusa’s on Belmont Ave. and Riviera on Lawrence St. from 85-89.
Nobody can dispute that House Music originated in Chicago. Every classic house track we listen to do was produced in Chicago. Every track we now listen to was influenced by the Chicago four-on-the-floor sound. Just like Kool Herc flexed the technology of turntables, Chip-E flexed the technology of the drum machine. What they now call “Tech House” is really nothing more than Acid House, a raw Chicago musical form. Hip-House originated in Chicago (DJ international Records; Fast Eddie, Kool Rock Steady, Tyree Cooper, Acid Thunder). Kids in Chi were dancing a Hip-House style two years before Jungle Brothers dropped in ‘88 and brought it mainstream. And what you think - kids on the South Side of Chicago were standin’ around in 1985 looking at each other when Chip-E’s Time to Jack (acid) came through the warehouse speakers? No, they were planting the roots for the phenomenon now known as House Dance. Complex footwork, jackin. There was NO hip-hop at clubs in Chicago, only house. Meanwhile, kids in NYC were either breakin’ in the street, going to hip-hop jams or hangin’ out in 95% gay clubs listening to GARAGE music and disco at the paradise garage.
The latest YouTube video I seen called “History of House Dance” which was produced in 1991-1992 in NYC, they used the track Acid Crash, a Chicago cultural anthem from 1988. These songs were played in underground (straight) clubs in Chicago years before they hit NYC. Crazy cyphers, wicked styles, complex footwork, acrobatics. Shit, Tyree was a dancer himself. The dancers in Chicago were the ones producing these classic House Music tracks that NYC kids later “discovered”.
But no, if I get the story straight, Tone, House Dance started in 1991 when New York kids gave up on the hip-hop scene cause the street jams got shut down by the cops, moved into the clubs, discovered Crystal Waters and “Pump Up the Jam” and applied hip-hop moves to house? ILLOGICAL. Chicago had a good 8 years of house dance history before that happened, including a vibrant Hip-House scene at the Rivieria on Lawrence Street, complete with house dance battles and competitions, all performed to Chicago house music - all night long . . .
one more thing: if you look at the origination of any street dance form, you’ll find that the dance style originated in the same geographic site as the origination of the musical style. Breakin (dance) / Hip-Hop (music) - South Bronx. Popping (dance) / Funk (music) - Cali. Hustle (dance) / Disco (Music) - NY. Krumpin (dance) - gansta hip-hop (music) - LA. The list goes on, we can even take this theory back to Africa - where the regional dance style (Sabar) always matches the rhythm of the regional drum (Sabar). The rhythm of the music creates the style of the dance and vice-versa. It is simple call-and- response. LOGICAL.
Yet, House Dance somehow became the ONE and only exception to this timeless and ancient mode of interplay between the drummer and the dancer. You claim that House Dance miraculously developed in NYC in the early 90s even though the music developed almost a decade earlier in Chicago. And you assume that while NYC kids created art out of Acid Crash, Chicago kids from the South Side just did the bump and grind. ILLOGICAL.
The only explanation for why original House Dancers from Chicago are not recognized is this: no access to media. Nobody saw it as entertainment. Nobody saw an avenue to dance in videos, or to travel abroad, or to market it. They were just dancing their hearts out to dance. It was fun, not business. The Chicago style of jacking creeped into NYC - the background dancers for Chicago artists like Marshall Jefferson and Fast Eddie made appearances in NYC. Some NYC kids traveled to Chicago and checked the scene at the Music Box as early as 86. They SAW it - they got it - they packaged it - marketed it - and they were in a position to do so cause they had access to the media back in the Big Apple. The Japanese kids saw the media and that’s how the history of house dance got fucked up. Now an “OG” in House means a dancer who started dancing to house in 1991 - the year of C&C Music Factory. ILLOGICAL.
Having said all that - I agree that house dance evolved as a SYSTEMATIC art form in New York. Most of the floorwork elements, derived from capoeria and lofting, became integrated in NY. And the cultural mecca of House Dance and music is now in NYC. Which is why I stand in respect to the legacy of NYC’s contribution to House Dance (while always sharing knowledge about its true roots).
September 4th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Whooaaa never posted here b4 glad to see it up and running. Shout out to all the homies on the board!!! Ok so I have to throw my 2 cents in here someone showed me this posting and I have to give a lil info on Jabba and house on MTV!!
Now I don’t believe MTV is the best venue to expose all underground styles espeically not house. But for bboying, locking, popping, hiphop its perfect, the markets there and its ready for it. I agree the judges should be DANCERS and DANCE on the show to show there abilities so that they back up there talk but u know its a TV SHOW = YOU HAVE TO GET RATINGS!!! meaning whos gonna make the finals = WHOS GONNA GET GOOD RATINGS So producers are thinking we need east coast market and west coast so lets keep these 2 in the finals etc etc. Its business it makes sense. THINK ABOUT IT!!
As in the comment on Jabba well heres a little history early 90’s a crew in San Jose called Jedi Clan blew up in the Bay. This crew got so big that George Lukas sent a letter saying they can’t use “Jedi” name even though he thought they were dope because episode one was being released at the time. So they changed there name to “Mindtricks” 2002-03 most of Mindtricks were growing up having families gettting married etc so the remaining member that were still hungry formed Jabba. Alot of the routines u saw on the show were old Mindtricks refurbished routines paying respect to where they came from and for Gary Kendell their fallen member! The reason a lot of it doesnt look new to you is cause most crews have been doing there shit or learn there shit from someone else doing there shit for YEARSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
Jabba’s dope to say they can’t freestyle means u been in a cypher with them right? cause you know you wouldn’t just talk out of your ass like that im sure! (hehe just a friendly reminder not to assume! thats all homies =)
Rainen can’t win comps? ARE YOU SMOKING CRACK ROCK he came up the same time freestyle sessions did with Rhythm Bugz Iron monkey rainen Isaih shit I was in the bboy scene back then i remember lol damn im feeling older now. Ask Cros ONE about Rainen hahah shit ask any legit bboy whos been dancing longer then 10 years. Randy and the rest of them can get down and they studied the styles for real from the OG’s!!
Jabba has the perfect style for ABDC they have the new school choreo skills along with bboying, locking, and some popping too even. These kats freestyle!!! All because you see them on tv doing there 30 sec routine remember its not like your watching them dance for 1 hour to see what they really got! SO DONT SLEEEP ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ they might wake your ass up in a cypher one day lol!!
As for house in ABDC its not that MTV ignores it its that there are no house crews in the US as Santiago pointed out that are interested in entereing. There’s no real known market meaning it is about $$. Are you going to redo Omarions video with house style? its MTV whens the last time u seen a dope house video on MTV its not the market for it. You dont see tap dancing on ABDC? You dont see hoofing? ABDC is design for the MTV hiphop market so those are the styles that will do well with their viewers and market the TWEENS thats the market they are in. House is a mature dance and music most people get into it later in life after highschool college etc. House is not a branch of hiphop its sepreate its different history with similar roots from disco and funk. Its also not street its from the clubs and from the gay scene. Does any of this sound like it will do well in MTV? Come on now do you really want to see a bunch of kids skating and jacking to “drop it like its hot”??? hahahah i dont.
I agree I think japan has a sick ass scene. But other countries respect our styles that the US created more then the US itself!! its sad. House industry is huge in japan TV shows, magazines, contest, practices, studios its organized. But thats because dancers in japan organized and worked hard to create their industry. In the US you have like 2-3 contest yearly. A few heads that teach here and there. No magazines. A few DVD’s with limited distribution. All the OG house dancers are dancing in other countries or NYC, they are more famous in japan and have more work there so it makes sense. This problem is more about us as a scene in America needs to Organize and grow our scene grass roots style props to Brian Green for the House Dance Confrence. Props to Byron for House Dance Project. Props to Santiago, Conrad, Red, Ejoe for HouseDanceInternational!! But we need more thats how the bboy scene blew up with Rocksteady bring back breakbeats in the id 90’s ( I was there south bronx!!!) and few others started brining it back in the 90’s now look at it!!! Looks like you already know its not a real “known” style its more then a style its a life style, its art, its religion to some, its all of these. If your prepared to enter MTV’s game on their terms and there music with their contracts and there judges by all means i’ll be voting for you but i doubt it will help because in the end its about the RATINGS!! lol But as someone else said on this post it will hit the mainstream in probbably like 4-5 years. Hiphop is going down over saturated with gangstas and hip POP in terms of sales etc etc. So the indsutry will be looking for the NEXT THING. Things always change and go in cycles house will again be in the mainstream soon enough but why rush it? Its going to happen lets be prepared to keep more control of our culture once it does and when the big corporations come knocking!! Let them knock but on our terms not us going to them for some audition for a show totally geared outside our genre.
Peace
Odie fLo-Ology
SF Bay Area
ps love the open discusssion not trying to offend no one but need to back up my boys if u gonna rip them up all because they won first place. As for house on the mainstream if the OG’s were on the TV i’d be excited other then that i dont know if its the right time for it.